- crux-devel - lists.crux.nu

meeting notes & next IRC Meeting
by Johannes Winkelmann 29 May '06

29 May '06

Hi there, This is a quick notification to let you know about last friday's meeting, and the upcoming one next wednesday (may 31). Last friday, we mainly discussed issues around 2.3 and random ideas that came up. Here's a brief summary: - We'll try to push out 2.3 later this year (Q3/Q4) if possible; it'll include at least the following: - Xorg 7.1 - gcc 4.1.x (note that I'd consider it safe to update gcc via ports during the 2.2 cycle, but that's up for discussion) - glibc 2.4 - Extend setup to handle modular X; one idea which was discussed and considered viable was to do grouping, such that one could first select the core group, the xorg group, and the [name to be found; remaining packages from opt] group - The idea of dependency handling during 'setup' was brought up, but not discussed in detail yet [personal remark: easier with dependencies in packages] - some devs would like to see easier update procedures, to avoid the CD boot/reboot for updates; not discussed in detail either, though interesting and definitely wanted by many - We'll review Matt's ISO scripts and merge them into the svn Makefile where appropriate - Cleaning up the package selection; we want to do that, but didn't decide which packages should go or be replaced - We'll start the public wiki section as soon as we find a volunteer to look after it (i.e. check the entries from time to time for spam or unwanted stuff). - we'll set up ck4up on crux.nu to check core ports; jue has kindly provided a special version and a configuration file In addition, danm proposed the following three feature additions, noting that we claim to utilize on using recent libs and tools: 1. move /etc/rc.d/net to iproute2 The consensus here was that we'll move /etc/rc.d/net to iproute2 for 2.3 but keep shipping net-tools 2. use PAM This has to be investigated, it's a tough balance between features and simplicity; integrating CRUX into certain infrastructures can be rather hard without PAM, and the transition seems painful. We need to evaluate the impact of this before deciding 3. install info pages This wasn't all that controversal as it might seem :-). In general, we agree that info pages contain important information at times, and we have to admit that several users would like to have them; we also agree that some consider them junk :-). We to slightly change our position on this, such that: - we move texinfo to core and require maintainers to have it installed (since some packages conditionally install the info pages only if texinfo is there) - we require that packages install their info pages - we extend pkgadd to support hooks such as: INSTALL ^usr/info/.*$ NO Whether 'NO' or 'YES' will be the default here is to be decided, but taking this route makes our packages more flexible without sacrificing a lot. As a personal remark, the same rule should IMO be used for desktop files and icons, i.e. install in general, allow rejection via pkgadd.conf. If/When we do this, we'll have to (re-)define 'junk' though; some might say that this way, we could just as well install /usr/share/doc and reject it by default, or even translations. Prepare some arguments :-) As a result, we've started a todo list in the wiki: http://crux.nu/Main/ToDo The next IRC meeting will be this coming wednesday, same time (20 CEST). I suggest the following agenda: - Quickly discuss open points from last meeting - discuss 'ToDo', and responsibilities in general - future of pkgutils (especially WRT the INSTALL feature mentioned above) Please post further discussion points in this thread. We'll do futher meetings as needed. Thanks for your attention, Johannes -- Johannes Winkelmann mailto:jw@smts.ch Zurich, Switzerland http://jw.smts.ch

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Re: [crux-devel] Mailing lists down / IRC Meeting
by Johannes Winkelmann 23 May '06

23 May '06

On Mon, May 22, 2006 at 17:03:57 +0200, Tilman Sauerbeck wrote: > Johannes Winkelmann [2006-05-22 10:46]: [...[ > > In addition, I'd like to propose having an IRC meeting this coming > > wednesday (may 24) 20:00 CEST, covering the following basic items: > > > > [snip] > > > > Please speak up if you'd like to attend but can't make it then. > > /me speaks up, wednesday evening doesn't work for me :( Okay, new proposal: friday may 26, same time. There's a certain risk that some of us europeans use take a long weekend off (since thursday is ascension day [1]), but I guess we'll see :-). Thanks, Johannes References: 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascension_Day -- Johannes Winkelmann mailto:jw@smts.ch Zurich, Switzerland http://jw.smts.ch

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[clc-devel] httpup daily report
by crux＠crux.nu 02 May '06

02 May '06

*** junk repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-e/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-e_utils/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-elicit/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-entice/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-entrance/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-iconbar/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-ecore/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-edb/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-edje/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-eet/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-embryo/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-engrave/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-epsilon/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-esmart/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-etox/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-evas/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-ewl/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-imlib2/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-imlib2_loaders/CVS repo/han/p5-xml-parser/perl-xml-writer repo/yhafri/p5-unicode-string/p5-uri repo/dahl/index.html repo/vico/index.html *** large (>1MB) repo/opt/poppler/poppler-0.4.5.patch repo/opt/tetex/.footprint repo/morlenxus/openttd/ttdx-files.tar.gz repo/ukraine/arm-scratchbox/.footprint *** repos crux ! spb ! ru: tzong () crux ! spb ! ru dahl: dahl () c64 ! org han: han () mijncomputer ! nl morlenxus: morlenxus () gmx ! net opt: crux () crux ! nu ukraine: artur () idt ! org ! ua vico: vico () bicisport ! de yhafri: ycrux () club-internet ! fr

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[clc-devel] httpup daily report
by crux＠crux.nu 01 May '06

01 May '06

*** junk repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-e/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-e_utils/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-elicit/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-entice/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-entrance/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-iconbar/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-ecore/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-edb/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-edje/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-eet/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-embryo/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-engrave/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-epsilon/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-esmart/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-etox/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-evas/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-ewl/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-imlib2/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-imlib2_loaders/CVS repo/han/p5-xml-parser/perl-xml-writer repo/yhafri/p5-unicode-string/p5-uri repo/dahl/index.html repo/vico/index.html *** large (>1MB) repo/opt/poppler/poppler-0.4.5.patch repo/opt/tetex/.footprint repo/morlenxus/openttd/ttdx-files.tar.gz repo/ukraine/arm-scratchbox/.footprint *** repos crux ! spb ! ru: tzong () crux ! spb ! ru dahl: dahl () c64 ! org han: han () mijncomputer ! nl morlenxus: morlenxus () gmx ! net opt: crux () crux ! nu ukraine: artur () idt ! org ! ua vico: vico () bicisport ! de yhafri: ycrux () club-internet ! fr

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[clc-devel] httpup daily report
by crux＠crux.nu 30 Apr '06

30 Apr '06

*** junk repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-e/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-e_utils/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-elicit/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-entice/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-entrance/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-iconbar/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-ecore/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-edb/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-edje/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-eet/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-embryo/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-engrave/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-epsilon/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-esmart/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-etox/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-evas/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-ewl/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-imlib2/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-imlib2_loaders/CVS repo/han/p5-xml-parser/perl-xml-writer repo/yhafri/p5-unicode-string/p5-uri repo/dahl/index.html repo/vico/index.html *** large (>1MB) repo/opt/tetex/.footprint repo/morlenxus/openttd/ttdx-files.tar.gz repo/ukraine/arm-scratchbox/.footprint *** repos crux ! spb ! ru: tzong () crux ! spb ! ru dahl: dahl () c64 ! org han: han () mijncomputer ! nl morlenxus: morlenxus () gmx ! net opt: crux () crux ! nu ukraine: artur () idt ! org ! ua vico: vico () bicisport ! de yhafri: ycrux () club-internet ! fr

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[clc-devel] Perl versions in footprints
by Mark Rosenstand 29 Apr '06

29 Apr '06

(This was filed in FS #37, but because of the comments, I'm lead to believe that it got rejected for the wrong reasons - so I'm opening it here for discussion, where we're not stuck in a stupid web interface.) Python is nice enough to keep its modules in a <major>.<minor> versioned directory, so footprint mismatches are rare, and when they do occur, it's a pretty good hint that the modules *needs* to be re-tested. However, because Perl puts its modules in a <major>.<minor>.<micro> directory, every upgrade triggers footprint mismatches for all Perl modules, most (all?) of which are bogus. Since we're a source distro, our general upgrade logic is that when a library (or "module") is upgraded, it's a good idea to rebuild dependent packages. Perl (and Python, which doesn't even promise bytecode compatability between micro version upgrades) modules is no exception to this. So, I suggest ignoring the perl version in the footprint like it already happens for kernel modules. Please note that it's the path in the footprint which is ignored, *not* the actual path in the file system. Also note that the purpose is to avoid bogus footprint mismatches in packages with Perl modules, not the perl package itself. This means that when Perl is upgraded, it won't find the modules compiled for the old version (just like it happens now, so our upgrade logic is kept intact.) And as can be witnessed by the attached suggested patch, implemention is trivial. With that said, nobody died from bogus footprint mismatches fo far, so if the proposal is rejected, that's fine - I just want to be sure it happens for the right reasons :)

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[clc-devel] Future development of CRUX / pkgutils discussions
by Johannes Winkelmann 29 Apr '06

29 Apr '06

Hi there, The dust after the 2.2 release has settled a bit, and I'd say it worked out pretty well. Thanks for your efforts in making that a (relatively) painless update. I've started two wiki pages to discuss the future development of CRUX itself and pkgutils, meant to serve as a outline for IRC meetings. Those pages are: http://crux.nu/Main/DevVision http://crux.nu/Main/PkgutilsIdeas I'd appreciate if anyone with write access would add his notes to those pages. Regarding DevVision: This page should serve to define a common vision and future goals of CRUX. Obviously, this is subject to frequent change, but I'd like to nail down some basic tasks and goals to make sure we're on the same page, and we're not wasting time implementing things the majority of devs doesn't want. In addition, this should allow people interested in certain subtasks to start working on it early on, seeing that we i.e. want something for the 2.3 release. Regarding PkgutilsIdeas: It's a rather longish document; if you're not that much interested, please jump directly to the "Summary" section. There's a section for personal comments and goals, and I'd be happy if those of you who have expressed an interest in pkgutils hacking (that would be at least sip, jdolan, tilman and vektori) to add their ideas there as well. Also related to this, I wrote a prototype (read: code not meant to be used in a final product but to demonstrate a concept) for attribute based pkgutils, including meta data in binary packages. There's an extra page for this at http://crux.nu/Main/PkgutilsAttributes, including a section on how to get the code and play with it. I'd suggest to have two separate IRC meetings (pkgutils first, the "vision" second) before the end of May; dates are subject to discussion. Comments both on the wiki pages and the rest of this mail are highly welcome. Kind regards, Johannes -- Johannes Winkelmann mailto:jw@smts.ch Zurich, Switzerland http://jw.smts.ch

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[clc-devel] httpup daily report
by crux＠crux.nu 29 Apr '06

29 Apr '06

*** junk repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-e/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-e_utils/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-elicit/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-entice/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-entrance/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-apps-iconbar/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-ecore/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-edb/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-edje/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-eet/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-embryo/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-engrave/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-epsilon/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-esmart/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-etox/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-evas/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-ewl/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-imlib2/CVS repo/crux.spb.ru/e-libs-imlib2_loaders/CVS repo/han/p5-xml-parser/perl-xml-writer repo/yhafri/p5-unicode-string/p5-uri repo/dahl/index.html repo/vico/index.html *** large (>1MB) repo/opt/tetex/.footprint repo/morlenxus/openttd/ttdx-files.tar.gz repo/ukraine/arm-scratchbox/.footprint *** repos crux ! spb ! ru: tzong () crux ! spb ! ru dahl: dahl () c64 ! org han: han () mijncomputer ! nl morlenxus: morlenxus () gmx ! net opt: crux () crux ! nu ukraine: artur () idt ! org ! ua vico: vico () bicisport ! de yhafri: ycrux () club-internet ! fr

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[clc-devel] [PROPOSAL] drop opt/pine
by Daniel Mueller 28 Apr '06

28 Apr '06

Hello, I don't know anyone who's using pine(1) these days. Why not just drop it and add opt/mutt + opt/nano(as replacement for pico(1))? CRUX's userbase seems to grow continuously - I think we should at least support UTF8/Unicode in all 'major' programs (the latest CRUX CD comes with pine). bye, danm -- Daniel Mueller Berlin, Germany OpenPGP: 1024D/E4F4383A ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [Clc-crux64] replace pico on nano? Date: Tuesday 25 April 2006 18:32 From: Виталий Бердинских <***.vitaly(a)***.kh.***.gov.ua> To: ***(a)lists.***.de Hello cruxers, hello Daniel! Propose add in distro nano and remove pico (for best Unicode support). -- Best regards, Vitaly mailto:***@users.***.net _______________________________________________ Clc-crux64 mailing list ********(a)lists.******.de http://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/clc-crux64 -------------------------------------------------------

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[clc-devel] CC: [suggestions for http://distrowatch.com/crux]
by Nick Steeves 28 Apr '06

28 Apr '06

Hi, Can we generate a listing of core and opt ports on crux.nu, so that DistroWatch can update our list of packages? Does everyone feel that such a thing is a good idea? Also, what would the most appropriate name for this column be? "Ports"? "Current Ports"? If we put this file in a branch-independent location, and changed that cat command to "cat crux-$version/{core/*/Pkgfile,opt/*/Pkgfile}", then it shouldn't be much of a maintenance hassle. If anyone knows of a better way to generate this package list file, please feel free to implement it. Cheers, Nick ----- Forwarded message from Ladislav Bodnar <distro(a)distrowatch.com> ----- Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:12:49 +0800 From: Ladislav Bodnar <distro(a)distrowatch.com> To: Nick Steeves <nick.steeves(a)shaw.ca> Subject: Re: suggestions for http://distrowatch.com/crux On Wednesday 12 April 2006 16:57, Nick Steeves wrote: > Attached is the requested file. It was created by "cat opt/*/Pkgfile > core/*/Pkgfile | grep -B2 version= > /tmp/CRUX-core_opt-ports-20060412". > How would you like to receive future updates? Is there a mechanism in Do you generate it directly on the crux.nu server? If so, just place it somewhere where I can retrieve it once a day to update the CRUX page. That's how I do it with all other distributions. Ladislav ----- End forwarded message -----

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