RE: mailinglist vs web forum
Hi guys, I'm quit new to the crux community but i really like it - it's one of the best distribution i used so far (the ports system is really great and crux linux is so kiss). But there are is one point where crux can not keep up with other distributions and that is the help for "crux newbies" (i don't meen linux newbies for this species maybe a other disti. is better...). There is quit a good documentation but the only way where a user can ask questitions are irc or the mailinglist. I like irc and mailinglists, but forums are quit normal for every distribution and they have disadvantage but they also advantages specialy for new users. And forums are mostly better adoptive then mailinglists - so nearly every distri. have a forum only crux linux have none. Hence i have simply put a forum under the domain crux-forum.com. please review and maybe someone can put a link at crux.nu to the forum ? I respect Johannes thoughts about a forum and we will follow them: 1. for this to work, motivated CRUX _users_ must take the responsibility to provide help/support there 2. the mailing list is authoritive and the place for "official" discussion. So the Subject of this Email isn't right it should be "official mailinglist and web forum" And I need help (mods etc.) - pleace email me if you want to help ! Please don't slap me - it is only a experiment. When nobody is interested in the forum i close it... Tell me your thoughts ! Best Regards, Tobias 'tri' Richter send me a mail: tri@imi.st visit me at: http://opt.imi.st
Hi, I actually don't like forums :) Maybe because a lot of them are rather badly designed. Quite a few also have too many features to deal with (Feature Fatigue). cheers James On Fri, Sep 22, 2006 at 11:23:55AM +0200, Tobias Richter wrote:
Hi guys,
I'm quit new to the crux community but i really like it - it's one of the best distribution i used so far (the ports system is really great and crux linux is so kiss).
But there are is one point where crux can not keep up with other distributions and that is the help for "crux newbies" (i don't meen linux newbies for this species maybe a other disti. is better...). There is quit a good documentation but the only way where a user can ask questitions are irc or the mailinglist. I like irc and mailinglists, but forums are quit normal for every distribution and they have disadvantage but they also advantages specialy for new users. And forums are mostly better adoptive then mailinglists - so nearly every distri. have a forum only crux linux have none. Hence i have simply put a forum under the domain crux-forum.com. please review and maybe someone can put a link at crux.nu to the forum ?
I respect Johannes thoughts about a forum and we will follow them: 1. for this to work, motivated CRUX _users_ must take the responsibility to provide help/support there 2. the mailing list is authoritive and the place for "official" discussion.
So the Subject of this Email isn't right it should be "official mailinglist and web forum"
And I need help (mods etc.) - pleace email me if you want to help !
Please don't slap me - it is only a experiment. When nobody is interested in the forum i close it...
Tell me your thoughts !
Best Regards, Tobias 'tri' Richter
send me a mail: tri@imi.st visit me at: http://opt.imi.st
-- -- -"Problems are Solved by Method" - - James Mills <prologic@shortcircuit.net.au> - HomePage: http://shortcircuit.net.au/~prologic/ - Phone: +61732166379 - Mobile: +61404270962 - Skype: therealprologic - MSN: prologic@shortcircuit.net.au - ICQ: 98888663 - IRC: irc://shortcircuit.net.au#se Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
On Fri, 22 Sep 2006, James Mills wrote:
I actually don't like forums :) Maybe because a lot of them are rather badly designed. Quite a few also have too many features to deal with (Feature Fatigue).
I second that. Michele -- Whoa! That is too weird! I asked around among the math faculty here and it turns out that _every one's_ wife is married to a mathematician! - Dave Rusin in sci.math, "Re: Genetics and Math-Ability"
Tobias Richter wrote:
Hi guys,
Hey,
i have simply put a forum under the domain crux-forum.com. please review and maybe someone can put a link at crux.nu to the forum ?
I respect Johannes thoughts about a forum and we will follow them: 1. for this to work, motivated CRUX _users_ must take the responsibility to provide help/support there 2. the mailing list is authoritive and the place for "official" discussion.
Please don't slap me - it is only a experiment. When nobody is interested in the forum i close it...
Tell me your thoughts !
It's fine for me to have a community-run forum since it provides an often requested service without taking time away from main developement and maintainance tasks. I'll certainly add a link/page at crux.nu later today; if your experiment is successful and the forum becomes a valuable resource for CRUX users, I think we may as well host it at crux.nu in the future if there are volunteers for maintenance/moderation. Thanks & Regards, Simone
Simone Rota wrote:
Tobias Richter wrote:
i have simply put a forum under the domain crux-forum.com. please review and maybe someone can put a link at crux.nu to the forum ?
I respect Johannes thoughts about a forum and we will follow them: 1. for this to work, motivated CRUX _users_ must take the responsibility to provide help/support there 2. the mailing list is authoritive and the place for "official" discussion.
Please don't slap me - it is only a experiment. When nobody is interested in the forum i close it...
Tell me your thoughts !
It's fine for me to have a community-run forum since it provides an often requested service without taking time away from main developement and maintainance tasks.
I'll certainly add a link/page at crux.nu later today; if your experiment is successful and the forum becomes a valuable resource for CRUX users, I think we may as well host it at crux.nu in the future if there are volunteers for maintenance/moderation.
Thanks & Regards, Simone
I think it's really cool. Of course, I also agree with cptn that the mailing list must remain the place for official discussions. But I think the forum will help broaden our knowledge base. Nice job. I'll register today :) -- Jay Dolan jdolan.dyndns.org A: Because it's annoying to read. Q: Why is top-posting bad? A: Top posting. Q: What's the most annoying thing about usenet?
2006/9/22, Tobias Richter <tri@imi.st>:
Please review and maybe someone can put a link at crux.nu to the forum ?
Struggeling with the installation of DRI on my bit old-fashioned Notebook for some days makes me think that a forum might be quiet a good place. However currently www.crux-forum.com is not working. The error is: List::Util object version 1.13 does not match bootstrap parameter 1.18 This error was reported at: /usr/lib/perl/5.8/DynaLoader.pm line 245, line 64. What i personally dislike about forums is that it mirrors this odd "please fix my problem bevor i tried by myself"-behaviour. A good howto-collection is worth much more but imposes some work keeping it up to date. Matthias
Matthias Pfeifer [2006-09-27 14:45]:
2006/9/22, Tobias Richter <tri@imi.st>:
Please review and maybe someone can put a link at crux.nu to the forum ?
Struggeling with the installation of DRI on my bit old-fashioned Notebook for some days makes me think that a forum might be quiet a good place. However currently www.crux-forum.com is not working. The error is:
What makes you think that a forum is so much better for figuring out your DRI problems than a mailing list? Regards, Tilman -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
Matthias Pfeifer [2006-09-27 14:45]: However currently www.crux-forum.com is not working.
WHY ARE WE _STILL_ TALKING ABOUT THIS FRAKING FORUM?!?!?! at least 4 times a year this FRAKING thread starts! should we just rename the ML "why-crux-doesnt-have-a-forum@lists.crux.nu"? I know i'm not the _only_ one annoyed about this. -- Best Regards, Jonathan Asghar phone: 512.619.0722
On Wednesday 27 September 2006 19:01, Jonathan Asghar wrote:
WHY ARE WE _STILL_ TALKING ABOUT THIS FRAKING FORUM?!?!?! at least 4 times a year this FRAKING thread starts!
Probably because it's not the same people asking the same question, and they haven't bothered with searching the ml-archive to see wether the question has been raised before.
should we just rename the ML "why-crux-doesnt-have-a-forum@lists.crux.nu"?
Why, if we can push all the people who won't bother / feel inadequate with a ml or irc to a forum somewhere, I'm all for it. They might eventually learn by helping each other, or maybe even learn to help themselves - since there quite probably won't be anyone else who can, wants or have time to. :> Anything else you wanted to know, since you're asking so politely? :> //treach
On 9/27/06, treach <treachster@gmail.com> wrote:
Why, if we can push all the people who won't bother / feel inadequate with a ml or irc to a forum somewhere, I'm all for it. They might eventually learn by helping each other, or maybe even learn to help themselves - since there quite probably won't be anyone else who can, wants or have time to. :>
Anything else you wanted to know, since you're asking so politely? :>
:-D -- Best Regards, Jonathan Asghar phone: 512.619.0722
On 09/27/06 19:01 Jonathan Asghar wrote:
WHY ARE WE _STILL_ TALKING ABOUT THIS FRAKING FORUM?!?!?! at least 4 times a year this FRAKING thread starts!
Maybe because a good number of people find some value in a forum? Just an hypothesis.
should we just rename the ML "why-crux-doesnt-have-a-forum@lists.crux.nu"?
fracking-forum@lists.crux.nu is not bad either. No, really, everybody please try to keep the discussion polite and respectful. Always. Regards, Simone -- Simone Rota Bergamo, Italy - http://www.varlock.com
Simone Rota wrote:
On 09/27/06 19:01 Jonathan Asghar wrote:
WHY ARE WE _STILL_ TALKING ABOUT THIS FRAKING FORUM?!?!?! at least 4 times a year this FRAKING thread starts!
Maybe because a good number of people find some value in a forum? Just an hypothesis.
should we just rename the ML "why-crux-doesnt-have-a-forum@lists.crux.nu"?
fracking-forum@lists.crux.nu is not bad either.
No, really, everybody please try to keep the discussion polite and respectful. Always.
Regards, Simone
As stated in the first two sentences on the Crux homepage: 1. for experienced users 2. keep it simple IMO the existing documentation and this mailing lists are sufficient enough to allow any "experienced" user to download the Crux ISO, install base/opt/contrib and enjoy a great Linux OS. There are already thousands of useful Internet forums covering every aspect of a Linux OS and applications. Let those be your Crux forums. So I say let's not re-create the wheel on this issue. I'd rather have a polished OS and no forum than a great forum echoing complaints about the lack of development resources.
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006, Jonathan Asghar wrote:
WHY ARE WE _STILL_ TALKING ABOUT THIS FRAKING FORUM?!?!?! at least 4 times a year this FRAKING thread starts! should we just rename the ML "why-crux-doesnt-have-a-forum@lists.crux.nu"?
I know i'm not the _only_ one annoyed about this.
Well, I'm not that fanatic about the forum issue, but not annoyed by it either. And opinions and user bases change over time. And you know, foolish consistency... As pointed out also by others I would welcome the forum solution if it were integrated with the mailing list. And provided that the forum-based access point did not degrade the quality of comminication on the ml itself (e.g. messages devoid of proper quoting an so on). Michele -- MANIOS MED FHEFHAKED NUMASIOI - "Fibula Praenestina"
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006, Matthias Pfeifer wrote:
Please review and maybe someone can put a link at crux.nu to the forum ?
Struggeling with the installation of DRI on my bit old-fashioned Notebook for some days makes me think that a forum might be quiet a good place. However currently www.crux-forum.com is not working. The error is:
It would be nice if your experiences made their way to the wiki for future reference in hopefully quite cleaned up and clear way. Michele -- Meany other hackers halve trouble remembering witch is witch to. I'm all ways perfectly rite thou. - Luke Palmer in p6l, "s/true/better name/"
On Fri, 22 Sep 2006, Tobias Richter wrote:
I'm quit new to the crux community but i really like it - it's one of the best distribution i used so far (the ports system is really great and crux linux is so kiss).
Agreed!
But there are is one point where crux can not keep up with other distributions and that is the help for "crux newbies" (i don't meen linux newbies for this species maybe a other disti. is better...). There
I beg to differ. CRUX has a reputation of being a distro targeted at experts, but I'm far from being one, and I'm happily using it. OTOH it does help increasing one's expertise.
is quit a good documentation but the only way where a user can ask questitions are irc or the mailinglist. I like irc and mailinglists, but
I have no experience with irc, but generally I favour ml and/or nntp approach, better if both channels are available and integrated. (There's now an easy solution for this in terms of gmane.)
forums are quit normal for every distribution and they have disadvantage but they also advantages specialy for new users. And forums are mostly better adoptive then mailinglists - so nearly every distri. have a forum
Whether they're "normal" or not I don't really care much. A mail or nntp based form of support is better suited to the kiss phylosophy of CRUX.
only crux linux have none. Hence i have simply put a forum under the domain crux-forum.com. please review and maybe someone can put a link at crux.nu to the forum ?
IMHO it would be nice if such a beast would not provide a *separate* channel than the ml, but if they were integrated. There should be technical means to do so.
I respect Johannes thoughts about a forum and we will follow them: 1. for this to work, motivated CRUX _users_ must take the responsibility to provide help/support there 2. the mailing list is authoritive and the place for "official" discussion.
Well done! Michele -- If memory serves, Prof. Hermann Zapf considered using Palatino for his wedding invitation (but reconsidered and used one of his wife's designs instead --- there's a lesson in that I guess). - William Adams in comp.text.tex, "Re: Simple Wedding Invitations in LaTeX2e"
Hi there! Michele Dondi wrote:
On Fri, 22 Sep 2006, Tobias Richter wrote:
But there are is one point where crux can not keep up with other distributions and that is the help for "crux newbies" (i don't meen linux newbies for this species maybe a other disti. is better...). There
I beg to differ. CRUX has a reputation of being a distro targeted at experts, but I'm far from being one, and I'm happily using it. OTOH it does help increasing one's expertise.
Yes. Some friends ask me from time to time what distro is good to start "learning Linux". I tell them that they should take CRUX if they want to learn how things work. After the first boot, they are dissapointed that they even have to configure X manually if it doesn't come up. Well... then there are lot's of bells'n'whistles eye-catcher distros [Ad on] like Sabayon Linux (Gentoo based) [Ad off] which are also nice, but if something goes wrong there, you have to dig really deep inside the distro specific stuff and understand that first which was propably not the primary idea of learning. I just created and account to the web forum, too. Maybe we can get some more interested people to CRUX that way. Best greets, Clemens Koller _______________________________ R&D Imaging Devices Anagramm GmbH Rupert-Mayer-Str. 45/1 81379 Muenchen Germany http://www.anagramm.de Phone: +49-89-741518-50 Fax: +49-89-741518-19
is quit a good documentation but the only way where a user can ask questitions are irc or the mailinglist. I like irc and mailinglists, but
I have no experience with irc, but generally I favour ml and/or nntp approach, better if both channels are available and integrated. (There's now an easy solution for this in terms of gmane.)
forums are quit normal for every distribution and they have disadvantage but they also advantages specialy for new users. And forums are mostly better adoptive then mailinglists - so nearly every distri. have a forum
Whether they're "normal" or not I don't really care much. A mail or nntp based form of support is better suited to the kiss phylosophy of CRUX.
only crux linux have none. Hence i have simply put a forum under the domain crux-forum.com. please review and maybe someone can put a link at crux.nu to the forum ?
IMHO it would be nice if such a beast would not provide a *separate* channel than the ml, but if they were integrated. There should be technical means to do so.
I respect Johannes thoughts about a forum and we will follow them: 1. for this to work, motivated CRUX _users_ must take the responsibility to provide help/support there 2. the mailing list is authoritive and the place for "official" discussion.
Well done!
Michele
Hi,
Some friends ask me from time to time what distro is good to start "learning Linux". I tell them that they should take CRUX if they want to learn how things work. After the first boot, they are dissapointed that they even have to configure X manually if it doesn't come up.
I fully agree to this. Crux is in my opinion the best distro to dive into the "deeps of linux". There is no specific distro dependent stuff to learn before starting to customize your system. It might be easier to use tools like "config-my-x-server" but this prevents you from knowing whats going on behind. Many users just want things to work and therefore don't mind if they don't understand what is really going on and I absolutely tolerate that. So it's no wonder they are disappointed when their system comes up and nothing but a console login prompt appears. If people would ask me what distro to use I would tell them: "If you are used to windows use Suse otherwise take Crux" and thats it :D
Well... then there are lot's of bells'n'whistles eye-catcher distros [Ad on] like Sabayon Linux (Gentoo based) [Ad off] which are also nice, but if something goes wrong there, you have to dig really deep inside the distro specific stuff and understand that first which was propably not the primary idea of learning.
This is defintely the big advantage of crux. No specific stuff. I really appreciate "Gentoo Linux" but there are so many tools to know before you can really customize your system. This is rather annyoing.
I just created and account to the web forum, too. Maybe we can get some more interested people to CRUX that way.
Forums have the big advantage that you can format your text in a much better way than using "plain text format" in the mailinglists. This improves readability and helps you keeping track of things going on. On the other site I can follow the mailinglist with simple console applications :P I think a forum is more attractive to new users than a mailing list or chat. Greets, Kevin Schenker PS: I love Crux ^^ -- Erstellt mit Operas revolutionärem E-Mail-Modul: http://www.opera.com/mail/
participants (12)
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Chris Pemberton -
Clemens Koller -
James Mills -
Jay Dolan -
Jonathan Asghar -
Kevin Schenker -
Matthias Pfeifer -
Michele Dondi -
Simone Rota -
Tilman Sauerbeck -
Tobias Richter -
treach