From sip at varlock.com  Thu Feb  3 22:46:38 2005
From: sip at varlock.com (Simone Rota)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 23:46:38 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] CLC CVS Guidelines
Message-ID: <4202A9CE.2040607@varlock.com>

Hi,

since I'm committed to annoy all the people on this list,
I remind there's a useful CLC Wiki page proposal by sten here:

http://clc.morpheus.net:6999/clc/tktview?tn=38

In which a internal policy for clc ports is proposed
(in particular to rule out what one should do if there
are problems / updates to a port he does not maintain).

Extract:
###
- If any download is broken; feel free to fix it.  One should then
   courteously notify the maintainer of the port.
- For all other fixes, email a patch to the maintainer.
- If the fix is security-related, and the maintainer does not respond
   after 48 hours, commit and tag.
###

Just my 2c:
- If there's a security update _AND_ a maintainer know what he's
   doing, I'd prefer an immediate update when available instead
   of waiting 2 days with an unpatched system. That could go just
   for remote vulns or in general.
- I feel very small changes could be handled by a clc member
   that is not the maintainer, ie when the minor version for a port
   changes and there are no consequences on related ports (or no
   related port at all). See my today sox commit[1] as an example
   of what I'm blabbering of.

So, If anybody would like to share his point of view,
feel free to reply to this thread and / or add stuff
to the ticket.

Regards,
Simone

[1] http://clc.morpheus.net:6999/clc/chngview?cn=1289

-- 
Simone Rota           WEB : http://www.varlock.com
Bergamo, Italy        MAIL: sip at varlock.com


From daniel at danm.de  Thu Feb  3 23:22:23 2005
From: daniel at danm.de (Daniel Mueller)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:22:23 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] CLC CVS Guidelines
In-Reply-To: <4202A9CE.2040607@varlock.com>
References: <4202A9CE.2040607@varlock.com>
Message-ID: <20050204002223.572ff6fd@torax.home.danm.de>

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 23:46:38 +0100
Simone Rota wrote:

> - If there's a security update _AND_ a maintainer know what he's
>    doing, I'd prefer an immediate update when available instead
>    of waiting 2 days with an unpatched system. That could go just
>    for remote vulns or in general.

I remember that I have updated some ports because of security reason
although they were not mine... (and I did not wait for 48 hours :-)

> - I feel very small changes could be handled by a clc member
>   that is not the maintainer [..]

Hehe, I have really nothing against the idea that an other maintainer
than me applies security patches (or small bugfixes) to my ports.

bye, danm

-- 
Daniel Mueller          http://www.danm.de
Berlin, Germany         OpenPGP: 1024D/E4F4383A


From jasonthomasdolan at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  4 06:05:41 2005
From: jasonthomasdolan at yahoo.com (Jay Dolan)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 22:05:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [clc-devel] CLC CVS Guidelines
In-Reply-To: <20050204002223.572ff6fd@torax.home.danm.de>
Message-ID: <20050204060541.2530.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Daniel Mueller <daniel at danm.de> wrote:
> 
> Hehe, I have really nothing against the idea that an
> other maintainer
> than me applies security patches (or small bugfixes)
> to my ports.
> 
> bye, danm

I agree with everything said here.  Not that anyone's
using my ports, anyway :)

=====
Jay Dolan
Software Engineer, Systems Analyst
Windmill Cycles, Inc.
508.999.4000


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! 
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From jw at tks6.net  Fri Feb  4 08:40:21 2005
From: jw at tks6.net (Johannes Winkelmann)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 09:40:21 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] CLC CVS Guidelines
In-Reply-To: <4202A9CE.2040607@varlock.com>
References: <4202A9CE.2040607@varlock.com>
Message-ID: <20050204084021.GB21176@hoc>

Hi,

On Thu, Feb 03, 2005 at 23:46:38 +0100, Simone Rota wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> since I'm committed to annoy all the people on this list,
> I remind there's a useful CLC Wiki page proposal by sten here:
> 
> http://clc.morpheus.net:6999/clc/tktview?tn=38
Yeah, I'm sorry this had to wait for so long.

> Extract:
> ###
> - If any download is broken; feel free to fix it.  One should then
>   courteously notify the maintainer of the port.
that's fine with me (just: no changes for "temporary down" servers; no
changes for "slow servers").

> - For all other fixes, email a patch to the maintainer.
... and maybe clc-devel as well? I mean, it might be that the maintainer
is not around, in which case it would make sense to apply the patch if
there's a consensus in clc-devel.

> - If the fix is security-related, and the maintainer does not respond
>   after 48 hours, commit and tag.
As Daniel suggests, security related patches should go in really fast;
maybe also with a short stop in clc-devel? Just to avoid that a
security aware person with no knowledge of port X applies a patch since
it appeared in any mailing list or other distro.

Maybe we could set the port revision field to 'hotfix' and make the
maintainer review the changes, and he would change it then to
'revision=1'; this way, the changes would go out really fast, while it
would be obvious that this port need a review by the original
maintainer.


> ###
> 
> Just my 2c:
> - If there's a security update _AND_ a maintainer know what he's
>   doing, I'd prefer an immediate update when available instead
>   of waiting 2 days with an unpatched system. That could go just
>   for remote vulns or in general.
I agree with that, it's just that it's hard to know whether you know
what you're doing, therefore the suggestion of sending it to clc-devel
before rushing into something.

> - I feel very small changes could be handled by a clc member
>   that is not the maintainer, ie when the minor version for a port
>   changes and there are no consequences on related ports (or no
>   related port at all). 
No related ports is fine; seeing all consequences might be hard
sometimes, therefore again I'd prefer a review step.


> So, If anybody would like to share his point of view,
> feel free to reply to this thread
Thanks for bringing this up! I think we'll have to work a bit on our
communication skills, to avoid that good suggestions are forgotten or
lost.

Kind regards, Johannes
-- 
Johannes Winkelmann              mailto:jw at tks6.net
Bern, Switzerland                http://jw.tks6.net


From jw at tks6.net  Fri Feb  4 08:56:08 2005
From: jw at tks6.net (Johannes Winkelmann)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 09:56:08 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] 2.1 approaching
Message-ID: <20050204085608.GC21176@hoc>

Hi there,


From jue at jue.li  Fri Feb  4 12:35:29 2005
From: jue at jue.li (Juergen Daubert)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:35:29 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] installing into /home (or not)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0501242107370.9750@1-1-2-5a.f.sth.bostream.se>
References: <20050119100015.GA2990@hoc> <20050121105300.GA1418@jue.netz> <41F0F49B.4070600@varlock.com> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0501242107370.9750@1-1-2-5a.f.sth.bostream.se>
Message-ID: <20050204123529.GA1443@jue.netz>

On Mon, Jan 24, 2005 at 09:18:52PM +0100, Per Liden wrote:

[...]
> The question is then where we should point ftp/www deamons and "system 
> users" home directories (like ftp) to by default. /var/<something>/<user> 
> is not all the uncommon as far as I know.
> 
> Any suggestions?

I've talked to Johannes and Daniel about that, our common suggestion 
is to use /var/ftp resp. /var/www.

Greetings
J?rgen


-- 
Juergen Daubert  |  mailto:jue at jue.li  
Korb, Germany    |  http://jue.li/crux



From jasonthomasdolan at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  4 12:47:34 2005
From: jasonthomasdolan at yahoo.com (Jay Dolan)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 04:47:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [clc-devel] CLC CVS Guidelines
In-Reply-To: <20050204084021.GB21176@hoc>
Message-ID: <20050204124735.88386.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Johannes Winkelmann <jw at tks6.net> wrote:

> I agree with that, it's just that it's hard to know
> whether you know
> what you're doing, therefore the suggestion of
> sending it to clc-devel
> before rushing into something.
> 
> No related ports is fine; seeing all consequences
> might be hard
> sometimes, therefore again I'd prefer a review step.
> 
> Thanks for bringing this up! I think we'll have to
> work a bit on our
> communication skills, to avoid that good suggestions
> are forgotten or
> lost.
> 
> Kind regards, Johannes

All good things.  No disagreement here.

=====
Jay Dolan
Software Engineer, Systems Analyst
Windmill Cycles, Inc.
508.999.4000


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. 
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From jasonthomasdolan at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  4 13:03:00 2005
From: jasonthomasdolan at yahoo.com (Jay Dolan)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 05:03:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [clc-devel] 2.1 approaching
In-Reply-To: <20050204085608.GC21176@hoc>
Message-ID: <20050204130300.70083.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Johannes Winkelmann <jw at tks6.net> wrote:

> Hi there,
> 
> From yesterday's chatlog:
> [23:27] <pli> first bootstrap of crux 2.1 started...
> yay!
> 
> So I guess it's time to have a close look at
>  
>
http://clc.morpheus.net:6999/clc/wiki?p=CruxConResults
> and see what we want to and can do for 2.1 :-)
> 
> To me personally, the following point is most
> important:
> - combined httpup collection as new 'contrib'
> 
> I'll try to start testing this weekend (I'll send
> another mail on this).
> If there's anything that you'd like to be ready for
> 2.1, please let us
> know so we don't all work on the same things ;-).
> 
> Kind regards, Johannes

Excellent.  I agree that the merged contrib is very
important.  Please let me know if prtsync needs
further work.  What of merging CRUX and CLC cvs on
clc.morpheus.net?  Has this started yet?  Essentially,
 we need to add all ports from base and opt, and also
retag contrib, no?  Does Per want to put this off
until he's more satisfied with his ports?  Do his
ports have CLC-style headers yet?  

Also, as prt-get and httpup will be provided on the
ISO, I will try to patch up httpup to fix the
url.encode/decode issue before 2.1, as I consider that
kindof important.

The next most pressing issue I think would have to be
merging the CLC portal and CRUX website, altho I don't
see it on the list it was something we talked at
length about at CruxCon.  I don't want to start
rambling off ideas without knowing what other people
are thinking of doing, but we need a plan ;)


=====
Jay Dolan
Software Engineer, Systems Analyst
Windmill Cycles, Inc.
508.999.4000


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250


From jue at jue.li  Fri Feb  4 13:06:33 2005
From: jue at jue.li (Juergen Daubert)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 14:06:33 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] CLC CVS Guidelines
In-Reply-To: <4202A9CE.2040607@varlock.com>
References: <4202A9CE.2040607@varlock.com>
Message-ID: <20050204130633.GA1523@jue.netz>

On Thu, Feb 03, 2005 at 11:46:38PM +0100, Simone Rota wrote:
[...]
> - If there's a security update _AND_ a maintainer know what he's
>   doing, I'd prefer an immediate update when available instead
>   of waiting 2 days with an unpatched system. That could go just
>   for remote vulns or in general.

I second that, but would additionally suggest to open a ticket 
with an url pointing to the advisory. With it the maintainer will 
be informed via email and the related checkin can point to the
ticket.

All other points are fine with me.


kind regards
J?rgen


-- 
Juergen Daubert  |  mailto:jue at jue.li  
Korb, Germany    |  http://jue.li/crux



From jue at jue.li  Fri Feb  4 13:47:56 2005
From: jue at jue.li (Juergen Daubert)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 14:47:56 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] 2.1 approaching
In-Reply-To: <20050204085608.GC21176@hoc>
References: <20050204085608.GC21176@hoc>
Message-ID: <20050204134756.GA1614@jue.netz>

On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 09:56:08AM +0100, Johannes Winkelmann wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> >From yesterday's chatlog:
> [23:27] <pli> first bootstrap of crux 2.1 started... yay!
> 
> So I guess it's time to have a close look at
>   http://clc.morpheus.net:6999/clc/wiki?p=CruxConResults
> and see what we want to and can do for 2.1 :-)
> 
> To me personally, the following point is most important:
> - combined httpup collection as new 'contrib'

hmm, to be able to do this there are one point that must happen 
before, or missed I something ?

- merge opt / contrib, that implies the merge of the crux/clc 
  cvs repositories

or 

- we have to invent another name for the "new contrib" collection
  and we stick with base/opt/contrib


kind regards
J?rgen

-- 
Juergen Daubert  |  mailto:jue at jue.li  
Korb, Germany    |  http://jue.li/crux



From jw at tks6.net  Fri Feb  4 14:16:51 2005
From: jw at tks6.net (Johannes Winkelmann)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 15:16:51 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] 2.1 approaching
In-Reply-To: <20050204134756.GA1614@jue.netz>
References: <20050204085608.GC21176@hoc> <20050204134756.GA1614@jue.netz>
Message-ID: <20050204141651.GA22191@hoc>

Hi,

On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 14:47:56 +0100, Juergen Daubert wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 09:56:08AM +0100, Johannes Winkelmann wrote:
> > Hi there,
> > 
> > >From yesterday's chatlog:
> > [23:27] <pli> first bootstrap of crux 2.1 started... yay!
> > 
> > So I guess it's time to have a close look at
> >   http://clc.morpheus.net:6999/clc/wiki?p=CruxConResults
> > and see what we want to and can do for 2.1 :-)
> > 
> > To me personally, the following point is most important:
> > - combined httpup collection as new 'contrib'
> 
> hmm, to be able to do this there are one point that must happen 
> before, or missed I something ?
> 
> - merge opt / contrib, that implies the merge of the crux/clc 
>   cvs repositories
That's true, I got side-tracked; I remember Per saying that the repo
merge would probably have to wait until 2.1 is out; maybe we could start
looking into the requirements for the common CVS, like where to host it
etc.

In addition, I don't think it's a bad idea to start testing the scripts,
to make sure we can put up the new contrib really soon once CVS is
ready.

Kind regards, Johannes
-- 
Johannes Winkelmann              mailto:jw at tks6.net
Bern, Switzerland                http://jw.tks6.net


From jw at tks6.net  Fri Feb  4 20:34:57 2005
From: jw at tks6.net (Johannes Winkelmann)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 21:34:57 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] 2.1 approaching
In-Reply-To: <20050204130300.70083.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050204085608.GC21176@hoc> <20050204130300.70083.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050204203457.GA31160@hoc>

Hi,

On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 05:03:00 -0800, Jay Dolan wrote:
[..]
> > To me personally, the following point is most
> > important:
> > - combined httpup collection as new 'contrib'
> > 
> > I'll try to start testing this weekend (I'll send
> > another mail on this).
[...]
> 
> Excellent.  I agree that the merged contrib is very
> important.  Please let me know if prtsync needs
> further work.
I'd really like to have an instant notification if a port is not
maintained anymore; as far as I can see, this is only done by the "not
modified in 20 days" check, which again is rather dangerous for ports
which hardly ever change (even though aterm has a beta out, and blackbox
an RC ;-)).
 

[...]
> The next most pressing issue I think would have to be
> merging the CLC portal and CRUX website, altho I don't
> see it on the list it was something we talked at
> length about at CruxCon.  I don't want to start
> rambling off ideas without knowing what other people
> are thinking of doing, but we need a plan ;)
Yeah, and some commitment I guess. I've heard people complaining about
the CLC wiki in #crux... I guess if we build up a new page, we should
really try to make those people help us to build up the new wiki, since
there really is some interest.

Kind regards, Johannes
-- 
Johannes Winkelmann              mailto:jw at tks6.net
Bern, Switzerland                http://jw.tks6.net


From sip at varlock.com  Sun Feb  6 01:08:36 2005
From: sip at varlock.com (Simone Rota)
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 02:08:36 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] 2.1 approaching
In-Reply-To: <20050204203457.GA31160@hoc>
References: <20050204085608.GC21176@hoc> <20050204130300.70083.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> <20050204203457.GA31160@hoc>
Message-ID: <42056E14.4060808@varlock.com>

On 02/04/05 21:34 Johannes Winkelmann wrote:
> I'd really like to have an instant notification if a port is not
> maintained anymore; as far as I can see, this is only done by the "not
> modified in 20 days" check, which again is rather dangerous for ports
> which hardly ever change (even though aterm has a beta out, and blackbox
> an RC ;-)).

Just an idea: what about looking at the REPO file instead?
Either at the REPO timestamp or at a var inside that file
(maybe auto-generated by httpup?). That would 'gently invite'
the contributors to update the repo (say once a month),
even if by simply adjusting the 'lastgenerated' var,
just to tell us the repo is still maintained as a whole.

Oh, and since we're on topic, a sort of blocking mechanism
by CLC maintainers could be useful to disable a port/repo
that does stupid or nasty things as quick as possible.

>>The next most pressing issue I think would have to be
>>merging the CLC portal and CRUX website, altho I don't
>>see it on the list it was something we talked at
>>length about at CruxCon.  I don't want to start
>>rambling off ideas without knowing what other people
>>are thinking of doing, but we need a plan ;)

> Yeah, and some commitment I guess. I've heard people complaining about
> the CLC wiki in #crux... I guess if we build up a new page, we should
> really try to make those people help us to build up the new wiki, since
> there really is some interest.

I'd like to help with the website design / coding, but some
technical question has to be discussed before starting anything:

- where will the site be hosted?
- what kind of services are available (db, language, webserver...)
- what level of integration between cvstrac / wiki / website do
   we plan to have? (ie, an independent wiki integrated with the website
   would probably be more user-friendly than the cvstrac one)

Personally I'm quite busy with my last exams at the moment
(until feb 24), a slightly more detailed timeline would be of great
help at this point.
Per, is it possible to plan / postpone the 2.1 release to a more
or less defined date?

Regards,
Simone

-- 
Simone Rota           WEB : http://www.varlock.com
Bergamo, Italy        MAIL: sip at varlock.com


From victord at v600.net  Sun Feb  6 07:59:03 2005
From: victord at v600.net (Victor)
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 02:59:03 -0500
Subject: [clc-devel] CLC CVS Guidelines
In-Reply-To: <20050204060541.2530.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050204060541.2530.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4205CE47.6020903@v600.net>

Jay Dolan wrote:
> --- Daniel Mueller <daniel at danm.de> wrote:
> 
>>Hehe, I have really nothing against the idea that an
>>other maintainer
>>than me applies security patches (or small bugfixes)
>>to my ports.
>>
>>bye, danm
> 
> 
> I agree with everything said here.  Not that anyone's
> using my ports, anyway :)

I use pkgsync. Except for calling me obscene names, it works fine.

:)

Victor


From jasonthomasdolan at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  6 14:41:35 2005
From: jasonthomasdolan at yahoo.com (Jay Dolan)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 06:41:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [clc-devel] CLC CVS Guidelines
In-Reply-To: <4205CE47.6020903@v600.net>
Message-ID: <20050206144136.55518.qmail@web41511.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Victor <victord at v600.net> wrote:
> I use pkgsync. Except for calling me obscene names,
> it works fine.
> 
> :)
> 
> Victor

Oh, I've been meaning to take those warnings out..I
was going through a difficult breakup when I wrote
pkgsync and was bitter.  They're especially offensive
if you're a blonde female.

Not really ;)


=====
Jay Dolan
Software Engineer, Systems Analyst
Windmill Cycles, Inc.
508.999.4000


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
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From jw at tks6.net  Sun Feb  6 17:18:52 2005
From: jw at tks6.net (Johannes Winkelmann)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 18:18:52 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] 2.1 approaching
In-Reply-To: <20050204130300.70083.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050204085608.GC21176@hoc> <20050204130300.70083.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050206171852.GC16986@hoc>

Hi,

On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 05:03:00 -0800, Jay Dolan wrote:
> http://clc.morpheus.net:6999/clc/wiki?p=CruxConResults
[...]
> Also, as prt-get and httpup will be provided on the
> ISO, I will try to patch up httpup to fix the
> url.encode/decode issue before 2.1, as I consider that
> kindof important.
I uploaded a test version of httpup 0.4.0 (available in my repo); this
one encodes files names obtained from the REPO file when used with the
'--encode' switch (or '-e'). In addition, it also supports
--repofile=FILENAME (-r FILENAME) to specify an alternative name for the
REPO file. I'm not yet sure whether 'encode' should be the default, will
have to think about that.

Use 
  httpup --help
and
  httpup sync --help
to get started.

WARNING: 0.4.0-test1 also includes the updated repgen script, which
doesn't support the unfriendly HS_IGNORE variable any more. Read the
following for more info:
  http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=crux&m=109584311525991&w=2

Feedback appreciated.
Kind regards, Johannes

P.S. I exchanged the argument parsing, and dropped the 'mirror' command
for now; also the 'copy' command always requires two arguments
-- 
Johannes Winkelmann              mailto:jw at tks6.net
Bern, Switzerland                http://jw.tks6.net


From jasonthomasdolan at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  6 17:52:35 2005
From: jasonthomasdolan at yahoo.com (Jay Dolan)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 09:52:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [clc-devel] 2.1 approaching
In-Reply-To: <20050206171852.GC16986@hoc>
Message-ID: <20050206175235.3931.qmail@web41522.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Johannes Winkelmann <jw at tks6.net> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On Fri, Feb 04, 2005 at 05:03:00 -0800, Jay Dolan
> wrote:
> >
>
http://clc.morpheus.net:6999/clc/wiki?p=CruxConResults
> [...]
> > Also, as prt-get and httpup will be provided on
> the
> > ISO, I will try to patch up httpup to fix the
> > url.encode/decode issue before 2.1, as I consider
> that
> > kindof important.
> I uploaded a test version of httpup 0.4.0 (available
> in my repo); this
> one encodes files names obtained from the REPO file
> when used with the
> '--encode' switch (or '-e'). In addition, it also
> supports
> --repofile=FILENAME (-r FILENAME) to specify an
> alternative name for the
> REPO file. I'm not yet sure whether 'encode' should
> be the default, will
> have to think about that.
> 
> Use 
>   httpup --help
> and
>   httpup sync --help
> to get started.
> 
> WARNING: 0.4.0-test1 also includes the updated
> repgen script, which
> doesn't support the unfriendly HS_IGNORE variable
> any more. Read the
> following for more info:
>  
>
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=crux&m=109584311525991&w=2
> 
> Feedback appreciated.
> Kind regards, Johannes
> 
> P.S. I exchanged the argument parsing, and dropped
> the 'mirror' command
> for now; also the 'copy' command always requires two
> arguments
> -- 
> Johannes Winkelmann              mailto:jw at tks6.net
> Bern, Switzerland                http://jw.tks6.net



Thanks, sunshine ;*

=====
Jay Dolan
Software Engineer, Systems Analyst
Windmill Cycles, Inc.
508.999.4000


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
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From jasonthomasdolan at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  6 17:55:57 2005
From: jasonthomasdolan at yahoo.com (Jay Dolan)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 09:55:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [clc-devel] 2.1 approaching
In-Reply-To: <42056E14.4060808@varlock.com>
Message-ID: <20050206175558.7118.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Simone Rota <sip at varlock.com> wrote:
> Just an idea: what about looking at the REPO file
> instead?
> Either at the REPO timestamp or at a var inside that
> file
> (maybe auto-generated by httpup?). That would
> 'gently invite'
> the contributors to update the repo (say once a
> month),
> even if by simply adjusting the 'lastgenerated' var,
> just to tell us the repo is still maintained as a
> whole.
> 
> Oh, and since we're on topic, a sort of blocking
> mechanism
> by CLC maintainers could be useful to disable a
> port/repo
> that does stupid or nasty things as quick as
> possible.

Not sure how to tackle the block/filter thing off the
top of my head, but I like your idea about examining
the REPO file to see if a repository is being
maintained.  Of course, a lazy maintainer could always
setup a cron job to httpup-repgen, but ..I'll see how
easily I can work it in and we'll go from there :)


=====
Jay Dolan
Software Engineer, Systems Analyst
Windmill Cycles, Inc.
508.999.4000


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
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From jw at tks6.net  Sun Feb  6 18:50:03 2005
From: jw at tks6.net (Johannes Winkelmann)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 19:50:03 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] 2.1 approaching
In-Reply-To: <42056E14.4060808@varlock.com>
References: <20050204085608.GC21176@hoc> <20050204130300.70083.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> <20050204203457.GA31160@hoc> <42056E14.4060808@varlock.com>
Message-ID: <20050206185003.GD16986@hoc>

Hi,

On Sun, Feb 06, 2005 at 02:08:36 +0100, Simone Rota wrote:
> On 02/04/05 21:34 Johannes Winkelmann wrote:
> >I'd really like to have an instant notification if a port is not
> >maintained anymore; as far as I can see, this is only done by the "not
> >modified in 20 days" check, which again is rather dangerous for ports
> >which hardly ever change (even though aterm has a beta out, and blackbox
> >an RC ;-)).
> 
> Just an idea: what about looking at the REPO file instead?
> Either at the REPO timestamp or at a var inside that file
> (maybe auto-generated by httpup?). That would 'gently invite'
> the contributors to update the repo (say once a month),
> even if by simply adjusting the 'lastgenerated' var,
> just to tell us the repo is still maintained as a whole.
I don't think this is a good idea, since it places an additional burden
on the developers (regenerate the repo even if there's no need for it).
Given that I'd like to have as many people as possible taking part in
this new contrib, I'd like to not introduce any additional complexity
over maintaining a personal repo (besides the duplicates, of course).

Other than that, I think I got slighly missunderstood, or maybe I didn't
understand Jay's script: as far as I understood, even if the port is not
in the input set anymore, the 'unmaintained' tag is only set after a
certain time. It's not about measuring a maintainer's activity, it's
just about marking those ports which have been dropped by a maintainer
as 'unmaintained'. This cannot be seen by looking at the REPO file,
since a REPO file of an active maintainer will never be older than a
month; he might nevertheless drop ports.
Please let me know if I'm not clear here.

preprep [1] handles this by maintaining a list if ports which were synced
last time, and synced this time; those is $last but not in $this are
those which have to be marked 'unmaintained'.

Either way, I hope I'll manage to setup a test repository this evening
using preprep; I'll be in #crux during that :-).

Kind regards, Johannes

References:
 1. http://jw.tks6.net/files/crux/preprep/preprep.sh.html
-- 
Johannes Winkelmann              mailto:jw at tks6.net
Bern, Switzerland                http://jw.tks6.net


From jasonthomasdolan at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  6 19:19:56 2005
From: jasonthomasdolan at yahoo.com (Jay Dolan)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 11:19:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [clc-devel] 2.1 approaching
In-Reply-To: <20050206185003.GD16986@hoc>
Message-ID: <20050206191956.86918.qmail@web41527.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Johannes Winkelmann <jw at tks6.net> wrote:
> I don't think this is a good idea, since it places
> an additional burden
> on the developers (regenerate the repo even if
> there's no need for it).
> Given that I'd like to have as many people as
> possible taking part in
> this new contrib, I'd like to not introduce any
> additional complexity
> over maintaining a personal repo (besides the
> duplicates, of course).
> 
> Other than that, I think I got slighly
> missunderstood, or maybe I didn't
> understand Jay's script: as far as I understood,
> even if the port is not
> in the input set anymore, the 'unmaintained' tag is
> only set after a
> certain time. It's not about measuring a
> maintainer's activity, it's
> just about marking those ports which have been
> dropped by a maintainer
> as 'unmaintained'. This cannot be seen by looking at
> the REPO file,
> since a REPO file of an active maintainer will never
> be older than a
> month; he might nevertheless drop ports.
> Please let me know if I'm not clear here.

I think the way I had intended for prtsync to work (it
 might even have this in it right now, without looking
at the script I can't recall..), was to create the
merged repo in a clean directory.  That is, if a port
is no longer in the input from the various
repositories, it will disappear the next time prtsync
is run.  Is this in itself problematic?



=====
Jay Dolan
Software Engineer, Systems Analyst
Windmill Cycles, Inc.
508.999.4000


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo 


From sip at varlock.com  Sun Feb  6 23:36:25 2005
From: sip at varlock.com (Simone Rota)
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 00:36:25 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] 2.1 approaching
In-Reply-To: <20050206185003.GD16986@hoc>
References: <20050204085608.GC21176@hoc> <20050204130300.70083.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> <20050204203457.GA31160@hoc> <42056E14.4060808@varlock.com> <20050206185003.GD16986@hoc>
Message-ID: <4206A9F9.3070203@varlock.com>

On 02/06/05 19:50 Johannes Winkelmann wrote:
>>Just an idea: what about looking at the REPO file instead?
> 
> I don't think this is a good idea, since it places an additional burden
> on the developers (regenerate the repo even if there's no need for it).
> Given that I'd like to have as many people as possible taking part in
> this new contrib, I'd like to not introduce any additional complexity
> over maintaining a personal repo (besides the duplicates, of course).

Well, if the private repo contains a fair number of ports
I think that usual updates would keep the repo alive without
the need of unnecessary refreshes.
I recognise this could be annoying if one has few ports in his repo.

> Other than that, I think I got slighly missunderstood, or maybe I didn't
> understand Jay's script: as far as I understood, even if the port is not
> in the input set anymore, the 'unmaintained' tag is only set after a
> certain time. It's not about measuring a maintainer's activity, it's
> just about marking those ports which have been dropped by a maintainer
> as 'unmaintained'. This cannot be seen by looking at the REPO file,
> since a REPO file of an active maintainer will never be older than a
> month; he might nevertheless drop ports.
> Please let me know if I'm not clear here.
> 
> preprep [1] handles this by maintaining a list if ports which were synced
> last time, and synced this time; those is $last but not in $this are
> those which have to be marked 'unmaintained'.

As Jay replies in this thread, the missing ports will simply
not be part of the new contrib anymore.

I prefer this solution, that encourages the presence only
of maintained ports in private collections:
I'm not much in favour of providing  an additional 'unmaintained'
collection (or subset of ports).

This is another reason for which I suggested checking the contributed
repsitories as a whole, I like the fact that a contributor would
submit the ports in the spirit "Here's a set of ports that I currently
use and maintain".

Maybe I'm too afraid the new contrib will become a large pile of junk :)

Of course, others opinion may be different.

Regards,
Simone

-- 
Simone Rota           WEB : http://www.varlock.com
Bergamo, Italy        MAIL: sip at varlock.com


From jw at tks6.net  Mon Feb  7 09:43:14 2005
From: jw at tks6.net (Johannes Winkelmann)
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 10:43:14 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] 2.1 approaching
In-Reply-To: <20050206191956.86918.qmail@web41527.mail.yahoo.com> <4206A9F9.3070203@varlock.com>
References: <20050206185003.GD16986@hoc> <20050206191956.86918.qmail@web41527.mail.yahoo.com> <20050204085608.GC21176@hoc> <20050204130300.70083.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> <20050204203457.GA31160@hoc> <42056E14.4060808@varlock.com> <20050206185003.GD16986@hoc> <4206A9F9.3070203@varlock.com>
Message-ID: <20050207094314.GB7682@hoc>

Hi,

On Mon, Feb 07, 2005 at 00:36:25 +0100, Simone Rota wrote:
[...]
> As Jay replies in this thread, the missing ports will simply
> not be part of the new contrib anymore.
> 
> I prefer this solution, that encourages the presence only
> of maintained ports in private collections:
> I'm not much in favour of providing  an additional 'unmaintained'
> collection (or subset of ports).
I guess the idea was to keep those ports around for a while; I sometimes
lose interest in port, and drop it from my repo; maybe someone would
pick it up, if he/she likes it. This would be simplified if
'unmaintained' ports would stay around for a while (a month is
definitely enough time for this).

Timeline example:

X drops port ---> notification --*----> Y picks it up
                                  \
                                   \ 30 days
                                    ----------> the port is removed

Note that there are two components: first, thanks to the notification,
interested maintainers will learn about the "free port" and pick it up.
Second, it's rather easy to do a 'cp -r /usr/ports/contrib/someport
~/build/upstream'.

If a port just fades away, chances are that this happens unnoticed; even
if it is noticed, to get the original port, one would have to find the
original maintainer, contact him/her and get the port somehow.

I'm conviced that small details like this will have a huge effect on the
quality of the new contrib collection (but that's of course just an
opinion :-)).


> This is another reason for which I suggested checking the contributed
> repsitories as a whole, I like the fact that a contributor would
> submit the ports in the spirit "Here's a set of ports that I currently
> use and maintain".
> 
> Maybe I'm too afraid the new contrib will become a large pile of junk :)
Given that an activation measurement is rather easy to add (be it in the
original sync script or externally), I wouldn't try to solve a problem
that doesn't exist yet. I believe that an "update requirement" would
mean that only those who want to dedicate a good amount of time will
join this project ("uh, I have to guarantee fixed update cycles to join?
I don't know..."); the net effect of this is the opposite of what we
wanted originally: instead of creating a big collection where to look
for ports, we'd add another layer (base/opt, contrib, httpups) and would
end up with the very same situation we have now.


But before we continue, I guess we should come to some agreement what we
actually want ('we' being more than just the three of us, hopefully).
Should we schedule an irc meeting to discuss that?


Kind regards, Johannes
P.S. I started a rewrite of preprep in ruby, which should be both quite
efficient and feature packed ;-)
-- 
Johannes Winkelmann              mailto:jw at tks6.net
Bern, Switzerland                http://jw.tks6.net


From sip at varlock.com  Mon Feb  7 13:15:23 2005
From: sip at varlock.com (Simone Rota)
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 14:15:23 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] 2.1 approaching
In-Reply-To: <20050207094314.GB7682@hoc>
References: <20050206185003.GD16986@hoc> <20050206191956.86918.qmail@web41527.mail.yahoo.com> <20050204085608.GC21176@hoc> <20050204130300.70083.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> <20050204203457.GA31160@hoc> <42056E14.4060808@varlock.com> <20050206185003.GD16986@hoc> <4206A9F9.3070203@varlock.com> <20050207094314.GB7682@hoc>
Message-ID: <420769EB.6060105@varlock.com>

On 02/07/05 10:43 Johannes Winkelmann wrote:
> Given that an activation measurement is rather easy to add (be it in the
> original sync script or externally), I wouldn't try to solve a problem
> that doesn't exist yet. I believe that an "update requirement" would
> mean that only those who want to dedicate a good amount of time will
> join this project ("uh, I have to guarantee fixed update cycles to join?
> I don't know..."); the net effect of this is the opposite of what we
> wanted originally: instead of creating a big collection where to look
> for ports, we'd add another layer (base/opt, contrib, httpups) and would
> end up with the very same situation we have now.

Generally speaking, I'd like to see a well-working contrib repository,
which encourages collaboration between maintainers ("I'm dropping
portX, does anybody want to take care of it?").
I agree that could discurage occasional contributors.
After all, people aiming at providing a "more maintained" collection
could simply join CLC, so your view of a less strict policy for the
new contrib is fine with me as well.

> But before we continue, I guess we should come to some agreement what we
> actually want ('we' being more than just the three of us, hopefully).
> Should we schedule an irc meeting to discuss that?

It's OK with me, the ML provides a more flexible way (less time
constraints), but IRC is probably quicker.


Regards,
Simone

-- 
Simone Rota           WEB : http://www.varlock.com
Bergamo, Italy        MAIL: sip at varlock.com


From crux at morpheus.net  Tue Feb  8 20:56:35 2005
From: crux at morpheus.net (crux at morpheus.net)
Date: Tue,  8 Feb 2005 14:56:35 -0600
Subject: [clc-devel] [CLC Ticket Notification] gstreamer update
Message-ID: <20050208205638.9D02C1C24F24@dream.morpheus.net>

Assigned to [clc-devel at lists.berlios.de]

The following CLC ticket (59) has been created or modified:

Description:



Remarks:



Contact: codah_pazo at shiba dk
CLC User: anonymous
Status: new

URL:
	http://clc.morpheus.net:6999/clc/tktview?tn=59



From crux at morpheus.net  Tue Feb  8 21:19:17 2005
From: crux at morpheus.net (crux at morpheus.net)
Date: Tue,  8 Feb 2005 15:19:17 -0600
Subject: [clc-devel] [CLC Ticket Notification] gstreamer update
Message-ID: <20050208211921.3DC971C24F24@dream.morpheus.net>

Assigned to [clc-devel at lists.berlios.de]

The following CLC ticket (59) has been created or modified:

Description:



Remarks:

Please submit an httpup url to an updated port rather than unformatted wiki text, please.

Contact: codah_pazo at shiba dk
CLC User: jaeger
Status: defer

URL:
	http://clc.morpheus.net:6999/clc/tktview?tn=59



From jw at tks6.net  Tue Feb 15 14:15:43 2005
From: jw at tks6.net (Johannes Winkelmann)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:15:43 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] suggestion for a 'proposal submission' procedure
Message-ID: <20050215141543.GA3179@narvik.tks6.lan>

Hey,

I've talked to Jukka regarding proposals sent to clc which are forgotten
after some time, and was wondering whether there are opinions regarding
a policy to submit proposals which are automatically accepted after a
while, if there's a certain amount of acceptance. The procedure I
imagine would look like the following:

1. Submit a proposal, e.g. to cvstrac 
2a discussion takes place
2b silent agreement (;-))
4. Adjust proposal, call for vote

5a Interested maintainers vote (-1, 0, +1) there
6. After a certain time (for example 2 weeks), the proposal is either
   accepted or rejected


I know this sounds very bureaucratic, but IMHO it's worse to make good
proposals and be commited to solve existing problems and just being
ignored.
Please note that this is not at all meant as a criticism, just attempt
to cope with reality :-)


Ideas for such proposals are:
- define a naming scheme for perl related ports (p5- vs- perl-); from
  Jukka
- The guidelines about changing other maintainer's Job from Sten
- "port of the week"; put up a webpage where extraordinary nice ports
  are published (no lengthy desciption). I e.g. discovered dnsmasq which
  I find _very_ handy, easy to use and working fine.


Please comment :-)
Kind regards, Johannes
-- 
Johannes Winkelmann              mailto:jw at tks6.net
Bern, Switzerland                http://jw.tks6.net


From victord at v600.net  Wed Feb 16 05:40:27 2005
From: victord at v600.net (Victor)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:40:27 -0500
Subject: [clc-devel] suggestion for a 'proposal submission' procedure
In-Reply-To: <20050215141543.GA3179@narvik.tks6.lan>
References: <20050215141543.GA3179@narvik.tks6.lan>
Message-ID: <4212DCCB.9010101@v600.net>

Johannes Winkelmann wrote:
> Hey,
> 
> I've talked to Jukka regarding proposals sent to clc which are forgotten
> after some time, and was wondering whether there are opinions regarding
> a policy to submit proposals which are automatically accepted after a
> while, if there's a certain amount of acceptance. The procedure I
> imagine would look like the following:
> 
> 1. Submit a proposal, e.g. to cvstrac 
> 2a discussion takes place
> 2b silent agreement (;-))
> 4. Adjust proposal, call for vote
> 
> 5a Interested maintainers vote (-1, 0, +1) there
> 6. After a certain time (for example 2 weeks), the proposal is either
>    accepted or rejected
> 
> 
> I know this sounds very bureaucratic, but IMHO it's worse to make good
> proposals and be commited to solve existing problems and just being
> ignored.
> Please note that this is not at all meant as a criticism, just attempt
> to cope with reality :-)
> 
> 
> Ideas for such proposals are:
> - define a naming scheme for perl related ports (p5- vs- perl-); from
>   Jukka

the more I hit perl with ports, the more I think perl sucks. I think 
it's just too easy to hit dependency hell with perl ports. Case and 
point: spamassassin, in crux terms, I would need something like 10 perl 
ports. I think this should only be done if it's useful. CPAN seems like 
a much easier way to install perl-specific things.

> - The guidelines about changing other maintainer's Job from Sten
> - "port of the week"; put up a webpage where extraordinary nice ports
>   are published (no lengthy desciption). I e.g. discovered dnsmasq which
>   I find _very_ handy, easy to use and working fine.

Sounds good. Just ban PYMP from the list, and we'll be fine! :)

V


From victord at v600.net  Wed Feb 16 05:46:25 2005
From: victord at v600.net (Victor)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:46:25 -0500
Subject: [clc-devel] ports in contrib depending on ports in unmaintained
In-Reply-To: <13332411.1097219123487.JavaMail.vector@pp.nic.fi>
References: <13332411.1097219123487.JavaMail.vector@pp.nic.fi>
Message-ID: <4212DE31.5090909@v600.net>

Jukka Heino wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> When building every single port in contrib I noticed that some of them 
> depend on packages that either don't exist or are unmaintained. In my 
> opinion contrib shouldn't depend on having unmaintained available. I 
> usually even disable unmaintained completely on my systems so some ports 
> in contrib fail because of this.
> 
> - bmp depends on libglade (unmaintained)
> - electricsheep depends on xscreensaver (unmaintained)
> - gal depends on libgnomeprintui and libgnomeui (unmaintained)
> - madwifi depends on linux (doesn't exist)

Linux was a "virtual" port for referencing the linux kernel, unless I 
made a mistake here (Johannes?)

> - nicotine depends on pygtk (unmaintained)
> - obconf depends on libglade and startup-notification (unmaintained)
> - ogle depends on libglade (unmaintained)
> - rox-clib depends on libgtop (unmaintained)
> - rox-lib depends on pygtk (unmaintained)
> - rss-glx depends on xscreensaver (unmaintained)

> - spamassassin depends on p5-html-parser (doesn't exist)

Perl sucks, all I can tell you. I removed that dependency, but the issue 
of it still exists. I feel it's just simpler for the very few people 
that build this port to get what they need from CPAN.

> - xautolock depends on xfree86 (should be x11)
> - xblast depends on xfree86 (should be x11)
> - xsoldier depends on xfree86 (should be x11)

Thanks to sip for fixing my issues there. I didn't realize. Basically, 
the jury is still out whether base/opt ports should be listed in 
dependencies. I believe they should.

> So in my opinion maintained ports shouldn't depend on unmaintained or 
> non-existant ports. The current situation is of course understandable, 
> since most of the GNOME stuff isn't maintained anymore. But in general I 
> propose we move towards a uniformly maintained contrib with no 
> dependencies on other collections than base, opt and contrib itself.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> // Jukka
> 
> _______________________________________________
> clc-devel mailing list
> clc-devel at lists.berlios.de
> http://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/clc-devel



From jw at tks6.net  Wed Feb 16 07:05:21 2005
From: jw at tks6.net (Johannes Winkelmann)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:05:21 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] spamassassin [was:suggestion for a 'proposal submission' procedure]
In-Reply-To: <4212DCCB.9010101@v600.net>
References: <20050215141543.GA3179@narvik.tks6.lan> <4212DCCB.9010101@v600.net>
Message-ID: <20050216070521.GA735@narvik.tks6.lan>

Hi,

On Wed, Feb 16, 2005 at 00:40:27 -0500, Victor wrote:
> Johannes Winkelmann wrote:
[...]
> >Ideas for such proposals are:
> >- define a naming scheme for perl related ports (p5- vs- perl-); from
> >  Jukka
> 
> the more I hit perl with ports, the more I think perl sucks. I think 
> it's just too easy to hit dependency hell with perl ports. Case and 
> point: spamassassin, in crux terms, I would need something like 10 perl 
> ports.
I'm glad you mention this, since it only requires two modules to build
fine and match the footprint (I did this on a pretty fresh install
lately). Those modules are p5-html-parser and perl-digest-sha1; the
former is available in contrib (thanks Matt), and the later is in
Jukka's httpup repository, but he doesn't mind maintaining it in
contrib according to my knowledge. Using those two ports, installing
spamassassin works fine the CRUX way (and non CPAN way, even though CPAN
itself is a great thing; it's just not tracked in the package database).

I guess I should have made it more clear that those modules exist as
ports in 
  http://clc.morpheus.net:6999/clc/tktview?tn=60 ;-)

Kind regards, Johannes
-- 
Johannes Winkelmann              mailto:jw at tks6.net
Bern, Switzerland                http://jw.tks6.net


From jw at tks6.net  Wed Feb 16 07:09:47 2005
From: jw at tks6.net (Johannes Winkelmann)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:09:47 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] ports in contrib depending on ports in unmaintained
In-Reply-To: <4212DE31.5090909@v600.net>
References: <13332411.1097219123487.JavaMail.vector@pp.nic.fi> <4212DE31.5090909@v600.net>
Message-ID: <20050216070947.GB735@narvik.tks6.lan>

Hi,

On Wed, Feb 16, 2005 at 00:46:25 -0500, Victor wrote:
> Jukka Heino wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >When building every single port in contrib I noticed that some of them 
> >depend on packages that either don't exist or are unmaintained. In my 
> >opinion contrib shouldn't depend on having unmaintained available. I 
> >usually even disable unmaintained completely on my systems so some ports 
> >in contrib fail because of this.
> >
> >- bmp depends on libglade (unmaintained)
> >- electricsheep depends on xscreensaver (unmaintained)
> >- gal depends on libgnomeprintui and libgnomeui (unmaintained)
> >- madwifi depends on linux (doesn't exist)
> 
> Linux was a "virtual" port for referencing the linux kernel, unless I 
> made a mistake here (Johannes?)
Well, if there would be a port for the kernel sources, we could probably
alias it to 'linux' or something else. I'm not aware of this though, but
I expect people have built their own kernel anyway, so we might actually
just drop the dependency and take a note in the README that if the
compilation fails, it might be because of the missing kernel sources (or
if they're expected to be in /usr/src/linux, check for it in build()).

Kind regards, Johannes
-- 
Johannes Winkelmann              mailto:jw at tks6.net
Bern, Switzerland                http://jw.tks6.net


From vector at pp.nic.fi  Wed Feb 16 20:35:05 2005
From: vector at pp.nic.fi (Jukka Heino)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:35:05 +0200
Subject: [clc-devel] suggestion for a 'proposal submission' procedure
In-Reply-To: <20050215141543.GA3179@narvik.tks6.lan>
References: <20050215141543.GA3179@narvik.tks6.lan>
Message-ID: <opsma4srj35hr1ki@fujitsu>

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:15:43 +0100, Johannes Winkelmann <jw at tks6.net>  
wrote:

> Hey,
>
> I've talked to Jukka regarding proposals sent to clc which are forgotten
> after some time, and was wondering whether there are opinions regarding
> a policy to submit proposals which are automatically accepted after a
> while, if there's a certain amount of acceptance. The procedure I
> imagine would look like the following:

I don't have much to comment except that I find this approach very  
sensible. I suggest we embrace this procedure in order to speed up  
decision making. :)

// Jukka


From jasonthomasdolan at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 17 12:33:32 2005
From: jasonthomasdolan at yahoo.com (Jay Dolan)
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 04:33:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [clc-devel] suggestion for a 'proposal submission' procedure
In-Reply-To: <opsma4srj35hr1ki@fujitsu>
Message-ID: <20050217123332.40460.qmail@web41508.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jukka Heino <vector at pp.nic.fi> wrote:
> I don't have much to comment except that I find this
> approach very  
> sensible. I suggest we embrace this procedure in
> order to speed up  
> decision making. :)
> 
> // Jukka

I agree.

=====
Jay Dolan
Software Engineer, Systems Analyst
Windmill Cycles, Inc.
508.999.4000


		
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From victord at v600.net  Fri Feb 18 15:22:43 2005
From: victord at v600.net (Victor)
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:22:43 -0500
Subject: [clc-devel] spamassassin [was:suggestion for a 'proposal submission'
 procedure]
In-Reply-To: <20050216070521.GA735@narvik.tks6.lan>
References: <20050215141543.GA3179@narvik.tks6.lan> <4212DCCB.9010101@v600.net> <20050216070521.GA735@narvik.tks6.lan>
Message-ID: <42160843.7070200@v600.net>

Johannes Winkelmann wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2005 at 00:40:27 -0500, Victor wrote:
> 
>>Johannes Winkelmann wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>>>Ideas for such proposals are:
>>>- define a naming scheme for perl related ports (p5- vs- perl-); from
>>> Jukka
>>
>>the more I hit perl with ports, the more I think perl sucks. I think 
>>it's just too easy to hit dependency hell with perl ports. Case and 
>>point: spamassassin, in crux terms, I would need something like 10 perl 
>>ports.
> 
> I'm glad you mention this, since it only requires two modules to build

Hmm, when I went to CPAN and installed spamassassin perl part, it 
installed way more than two modules. It is true that those two are the 
required ones, although if you consult the readme, you'd see that 
"Storable" is also required.

To make spamassassin a little more useful, there are also key optional 
requirements:

   MIME::Base64 (increases speed of spamassassin significantly)
   Net::DNS (without it, none of the DNS tests will work)
   Net::SMTP (required for Spam-Cop communications)
   Mail::SPF::Query (Used to check DNS Sender Policy Framework)
   DBI *and* DBD driver/modules for your database
   (more listed in the INSTALL doc for spamassassin)

Keep in mind that some of these have dependencies of their own.
While not STRICTLY required, most of these are just too useful to 
ignore, and I don't recall most of these in the ports tree. I really do 
not think that the purpose of crux ports should be to recreate CPAN and 
that is what I meant about ease of dependency hell.

In any case, I can update the spamassassin port to reflect the two 
modules you listed. However, I think the point about perl not fitting 
into our model well is a legitimate one. There are just too many things 
in CPAN and I do not think it is very useful to recreate it, especially 
when there are so many other ports we could be maintaining.

Just my opinion.

> fine and match the footprint (I did this on a pretty fresh install
> lately). Those modules are p5-html-parser and perl-digest-sha1; the
> former is available in contrib (thanks Matt), and the later is in
> Jukka's httpup repository, but he doesn't mind maintaining it in
> contrib according to my knowledge. Using those two ports, installing
> spamassassin works fine the CRUX way (and non CPAN way, even though CPAN
> itself is a great thing; it's just not tracked in the package database).
> 
> I guess I should have made it more clear that those modules exist as
> ports in 
>   http://clc.morpheus.net:6999/clc/tktview?tn=60 ;-)
> 
> Kind regards, Johannes



From crux at morpheus.net  Sat Feb 19 00:01:43 2005
From: crux at morpheus.net (crux at morpheus.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 18:01:43 -0600
Subject: [clc-devel] [CLC Ticket Notification] gstreamer update
Message-ID: <20050219000155.DB36A17CA05@dream.morpheus.net>

Assigned to [clc-devel at lists.berlios.de]

The following CLC ticket (59) has been created or modified:

Description:



Remarks:



Contact: codah_pazo at shiba dk
CLC User: sten
Status: review

URL:
	http://clc.morpheus.net:6999/clc/tktview?tn=59



From crux at morpheus.net  Tue Feb 22 18:47:48 2005
From: crux at morpheus.net (crux at morpheus.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:47:48 -0600
Subject: [clc-devel] [CLC Ticket Notification] Updated version for slrn
Message-ID: <20050222184756.7C34F1584E9@dream.morpheus.net>

Assigned to [clc-devel at lists.berlios.de]

The following CLC ticket (63) has been created or modified:

Description:



Remarks:



Contact: strcat at gmx dot net
CLC User: anonymous
Status: new

URL:
	http://clc.morpheus.net:6999/clc/tktview?tn=63



From crux at morpheus.net  Tue Feb 22 18:51:06 2005
From: crux at morpheus.net (crux at morpheus.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:51:06 -0600
Subject: [clc-devel] [CLC Ticket Notification] Updated version for centericq
Message-ID: <20050222185118.797351584F2@dream.morpheus.net>

Assigned to [clc-devel at lists.berlios.de]

The following CLC ticket (64) has been created or modified:

Description:

I have a new port for centericq. A u to date version can be found at
http://www.strcat.de/crux/ports/

Remarks:



Contact: strcat at gmx dot net
CLC User: anonymous
Status: new

URL:
	http://clc.morpheus.net:6999/clc/tktview?tn=64



From tillbiedermann at yahoo.de  Thu Feb 24 00:54:27 2005
From: tillbiedermann at yahoo.de (Till Biedermann)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:54:27 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] Application for CLC Maintainer
Message-ID: <421D25C3.5060200@yahoo.de>

Hi everybody,

when Johannes ask me to maintain a wiki page about my freevo ports I 
started (once again) thinking about an application to become a CLC 
maintainer.

So my decision is made: I'd like to join the CLC-team.

I am using CRUX for more than one year now, so I feel ready to become a 
bit deeper involved.

If you agree with my application I will start with setting up the above 
mentioned wiki page. Furthermore I picked up some ports I use from 
unmaintained and updated them. You can find them here:
http://www.tbmnet.de/crux/pickup/

Thanks for your consideration.


Regards Till


-- 
http://www.tbmnet.de




From jw at tks6.net  Thu Feb 24 09:49:37 2005
From: jw at tks6.net (Johannes Winkelmann)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:49:37 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] Application for CLC Maintainer
In-Reply-To: <421D25C3.5060200@yahoo.de>
References: <421D25C3.5060200@yahoo.de>
Message-ID: <20050224094937.GE26165@narvik.tks6.lan>

Hi Till,

On Thu, Feb 24, 2005 at 01:54:27 +0100, Till Biedermann wrote:
> Hi everybody,
> 
> when Johannes ask me to maintain a wiki page about my freevo ports I 
> started (once again) thinking about an application to become a CLC 
> maintainer.
> 
> So my decision is made: I'd like to join the CLC-team.
> 
> I am using CRUX for more than one year now, so I feel ready to become a 
> bit deeper involved.
> 
> If you agree with my application I will start with setting up the above 
> mentioned wiki page. Furthermore I picked up some ports I use from 
> unmaintained and updated them. You can find them here:
> http://www.tbmnet.de/crux/pickup/
Since it seems more interesting to look at new ports, I'll also post the
link to your regular repository:
  http://www.tbmnet.de/crux/ports/

I looked over a few ports, and they look good. There's one thing you
should change there if you commit them to CLC, which is removing the
mirrors from sourceforge download (just use dl.sourceforge.net instead
of belnet.dl.sourceforge.net).

Just one question tough: do you use IRC? While I know you've been around
for a while, I couldn't remember any discussion we had (which is not bad
per se), which usually gives me a better impression of a person and
whether we're compatible.

Kind regards, Johannes
-- 
Johannes Winkelmann              mailto:jw at tks6.net
Bern, Switzerland                http://jw.tks6.net


From jasonthomasdolan at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 24 13:28:41 2005
From: jasonthomasdolan at yahoo.com (Jay Dolan)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 05:28:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [clc-devel] Application for CLC Maintainer
In-Reply-To: <20050224094937.GE26165@narvik.tks6.lan>
Message-ID: <20050224132841.44118.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Johannes Winkelmann <jw at tks6.net> wrote:
> Just one question tough: do you use IRC? While I
> know you've been around
> for a while, I couldn't remember any discussion we
> had (which is not bad
> per se), which usually gives me a better impression
> of a person and
> whether we're compatible.
> 
> Kind regards, Johannes

I guess I'd have to say the same things.  Your efforts
seem very solid, and I've heard your name for quite
some time, but I can't recall seeing you in #crux.  I
don't think you'd be required to idle there 24/7 like
jaeger or anything :)  But, if you'd like to be a
maintainer, it'd be nice to see you in there a bit
more often.  Other than that, here's a slightly
premature "Welcome!"


=====
Jay Dolan
Software Engineer, Systems Analyst
Windmill Cycles, Inc.
508.999.4000


	
		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. 
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From daniel at danm.de  Thu Feb 24 15:48:50 2005
From: daniel at danm.de (Daniel Mueller)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:48:50 +0100
Subject: [clc-devel] Application for CLC Maintainer
In-Reply-To: <20050224132841.44118.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050224094937.GE26165@narvik.tks6.lan>
	<20050224132841.44118.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050224164850.35ed7386@torax.home.danm.de>

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 05:28:41 -0800 (PST)
Jay Dolan wrote:

> [..] Other than that, here's a slightly
> premature "Welcome!"

As always I'd be happy to see a new volunteer in our team.

bye, danm

-- 
Daniel Mueller          http://www.danm.de
Berlin, Germany         OpenPGP: 1024D/E4F4383A