[crux-devel] meeting notes & next IRC Meeting

Brett Goulder predatorfreak at dcaf-security.org
Mon May 29 20:36:31 UTC 2006

On Mon, 29 May 2006 22:18:20 +0200
Mark Rosenstand <mark at borkware.net> wrote:

> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> From: Johannes Winkelmann <jw at smts.ch>
> To: crux-devel at lists.crux.nu
> Subject: [crux-devel] meeting notes & next IRC Meeting
> Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 09:16:22 +0200
> Hi there,
> This is a quick notification to let you know about last friday's
> meeting, and the upcoming one next wednesday (may 31).
> Last friday, we mainly discussed issues around 2.3 and random ideas
> that came up. Here's a brief summary:
> - We'll try to push out 2.3 later this year (Q3/Q4) if possible; it'll
>   include at least the following:
>   - Xorg 7.1
>   - gcc 4.1.x (note that I'd consider it safe to update gcc via ports
>     during the 2.2 cycle, but that's up for discussion)
>   - glibc 2.4
> - Extend setup to handle modular X; one idea which was discussed and
>   considered viable was to do grouping, such that one could first select
>   the core group, the xorg group, and the [name to be found; remaining
>   packages from opt] group
>   - The idea of dependency handling during 'setup' was brought up, but
>     not discussed in detail yet [personal remark: easier with
>     dependencies in packages]
>   - some devs would like to see easier update procedures, to
>     avoid the CD boot/reboot for updates; not discussed in detail
>     either, though interesting and definitely wanted by many 
> - We'll review Matt's ISO scripts and merge them into the svn Makefile
>   where appropriate
> - Cleaning up the package selection; we want to do that, but didn't
>   decide which packages should go or be replaced
> - We'll start the public wiki section as soon as we find a volunteer to
>   look after it (i.e. check the entries from time to time for spam or
>   unwanted stuff).
> - we'll set up ck4up on crux.nu to check core ports; jue has kindly
>   provided a special version and a configuration file
> In addition, danm proposed the following three feature additions, noting
> that we claim to utilize on using recent libs and tools:
> 1. move /etc/rc.d/net to iproute2
>   The consensus here was that we'll move /etc/rc.d/net to iproute2 for
>   2.3 but keep shipping net-tools

If iproute2 is smaller/simpler/better in some way to ifconfig, then I'm all
for it.

> 2. use PAM
>   This has to be investigated, it's a tough balance between features and
>   simplicity; integrating CRUX into certain infrastructures can be
>   rather hard without PAM, and the transition seems painful. We need to
>   evaluate the impact of this before deciding

I think we're better off without it, CRUX is, after all, a distribution following
the KISS way of life, so complexity like this seems wrong. I would probably end up
modifying half of core/opt/contrib to kill PAM from my system and I think others who
enjoy the simplicity of CRUX would probably get annoyed by PAM. I vote that PAM stays
out of CRUX.

> 3. install info pages
>   This wasn't all that controversal as it might seem :-). In general, we
>   agree that info pages contain important information at times, and we
>   have to admit that several users would like to have them; we also
>   agree that some consider them junk :-). We to slightly change our
>   position on this, such that:
>   - we move texinfo to core and require maintainers to have it installed
>     (since some packages conditionally install the info pages only if
>     texinfo is there)
>   - we require that packages install their info pages
>   - we extend pkgadd to support hooks such as:
>     INSTALL     ^usr/info/.*$       NO
>   Whether 'NO' or 'YES' will be the default here is to be decided, but
>   taking this route makes our packages more flexible without sacrificing
>   a lot. As a personal remark, the same rule should IMO be used for
>   desktop files and icons, i.e. install in general, allow rejection via
>   pkgadd.conf. 
>   If/When we do this, we'll have to (re-)define 'junk' though; some
>   might say that this way, we could just as well install /usr/share/doc
>   and reject it by default, or even translations. Prepare some arguments
>   :-)

I'm all for this, since some programs (e.g gcc) only document some really good
information in their info pages and I'd like to have that on hand if I wanted to
read over it.

> As a result, we've started a todo list in the wiki:
>   http://crux.nu/Main/ToDo
> The next IRC meeting will be this coming wednesday, same time (20 CEST).
> I suggest the following agenda:
> - Quickly discuss open points from last meeting
> - discuss 'ToDo', and responsibilities in general
> - future of pkgutils (especially WRT the INSTALL feature mentioned
>   above)
> Please post further discussion points in this thread. We'll do futher
> meetings as needed.
> Thanks for your attention,
> Johannes

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